let's get this organized

[Joseph Fung]

There's where you're wrong Samm - Xnull was a collaboration of people which orriginated through YaBB.  YaBB isn't and shouldn't be a product of Xnull - it's a product of a bunch of volunteers.

That's why yabb se and yabb.info was done completely separately from Xnull - because many of us feel that wrapping YaBB up under the umbrella of a specific company is innaprpropriate.

[Jeff Lewis]

Ditto  To further go on...I don't see why there can't be some kind of working together but things need to be discussed Omario.  As Dave has said it would be wise to set up a group to check over mods, to make sure they aren't going to conflict etc.

To date, we're focusing on this current release and collecting any bug/feedback we can in order to make sure we're letting people download something that isn't buggy

[Matt Siegman]

I volunteer to test mods!

[Big P]

I'm not mad on a web based alternative to BoardMod. Boardmod is easy to use and edit, and YaME, is a great mod editor! Otherwise writer mods, I mean actual mods not bug fixes is going to be incredibly difficult, and search through code will be an absolute bitch.
Before long mods will conflict, and when they do there is just about no chance Joe NoBody will be able to edit a mod file to work on his site. One all modified file are online, not offline for testing. Getting the mod file itself is very hard, downloading editing with notepad.. etc. Can you really see an amateur doing all that?
Christ I'd go mad everytime a mod conflicted. A SE alternative to Boardmod should be the answer.  

The packages is a nice idea, but in the end might end up not doing what it is meant for: Being easy.

[Dave]

Well, another simple realization you may have to accept is that sometimes the better solution isn't the easier solution. To make things easier on the end user, it's very possible the mods writers are gonna have to step up and learn some more difficult functions and processes as far as writing mods goes. What I would love to see are "add-ons" and "plug-ins" ... features which don't require you touching the source code for YSE at all. Yes, difficult. But it's doable for some of the things out there.

I want the mod communities to be seperated for few reasons:

A) This is not a perl board. This is not a flatfile board. The easiest way to get people confused over what you are offering is to cram a bunch of completely different stuff into one place and say "go for it." You've still got people coming to boardmod wondering why Y1F mods dont work with Y1G... the confusion with php/mySQL <-> perl/flatfile would be preposterous to many people who come to download stuff but never actually post things in the community.

B) BoardMod's community is a bit messy right now, IMHO. You've got a bunch of mod writers stepping on each others toes (and dont say you dont, because I saw three versions of 'custom titles' by three people last time I browsed through there) and the mods conflict out the wazoo. Sometimes the best way to insure you have a good situation is to start out clean and fresh with a new gameplan... get all your ducks lined up in a row and take it from there one step at a time. It's a lot more organized that way then throwing another rooster into the middle of a cockfight.

C) You gotta learn to change and to accept change. Things are going to come along and you're not going to like them at first. I even refused to use boardmod for a while when I first starting modding because I only wanted step by step written out instructions from writers who wrote mods more like an essay than like a file structure. But this is NEW software with NEW features and NEW goals... with that comes new changes. It just takes some adapting.

[Big P]

Actually Dave I agree with you  
I know where you are coming from with add-ons, and they are great (like the news script) but not everything can be an addon. Several mods I have released and none could ever make it as an addon. Touching small amounts of code is all good, but it just can't always be done..

A) Very true. I know you absolutely hate XNull, and you don't want it hosted there, and after all, YaBB Info is seperate. So a solution could be: semod.yabb.info - Bob's your uncle! And it's true, PHP and Perl (MySQL etc.) are totally different, and should be seperated.

B) What I said in A applys here. You are right. It can get very messy, but then so is the packaging system. There is no actual area of arrival for all mods, a place to search for the latest version of mods. Even not knowing who's board to search for anything, as no one will have all the hacks. So a boardmod solution should apply here. An area to download the latest hacks, the XML in SE is nice, and i know its beta, but an area for downloads is best.

C) Unfortunitly yes. I know you liked the essey style hacks as you could learn new things. New users to Perl/PHP would start to learn a lot more! And really got rid of all the newbie questions which could drive anyone insane.
I still prefer a boardmod solution to an online variant as I have said before, mainly for the newbies. The whole idea of the package is for newbies, ask Jeff/Joesph or any admin and they'll tell you, the package system is to be as simple as possible. That's all fine until hacks start to conflict and then they'll never get what they want. Editing files offline/on localhost etc is easy, but on packages its a nightmare!

[Dave]

Which is the main reason and need for a 'Mod Team'. New packages (mods) get run by the panel of them first. They attempt to install it on varying levels (clean and a board with every approved package so far). If the install doesn't go correctly, THEY correct and change the code and make it compatible. If it needs some serious work besides just a few compatibility issues, they give it back to the writer and ask them to work on it a bit more, refining code and routines. If the mod team can rewrite it and make it compatible, then they approve it. They dont, however, put their name anywhere on the credits or anything, even if they did have to rewrite parts to make it work with the other mods.  Your mod then gets added to the officially hosted list. Mods within this list also get a 'Inspection Met' type of marking, which shows that it is YSE approved and tested.

I realize this is A LOT nit-pickier of a system than boardmod's current (write something, let a few guys beta test, submit, poof, it's there). But to prevent ending up with 270+ mods, many of which attempt to do the same thing and many of which are modifications of mods (man, those bug me, too), some sort of a system really needs to be implemented.

[Big P]

That's an excellent idea! Christ, I know how you can get annoied at other mod writers, its very easy and that system you have just devised is a breakthrough! It wouldn't remove the need for something boardmod like, just in case of some overlaps, which would still happen, but it would make the package system very good indeed.

I think you've just signed yourself up!   And if there is a team, I'd love to be part of it. I've localhostb fully set up and could easily test for bugs!

[Shoeb Omar]

well - then at least ask xxl if he wants to manage a new ocmmunity cause he's da best dman admin out there!
Also, i read 90% of Dave's post befre i fell asleep and i agree with it mostly but we cannot be too limited to mod writers. We need quick expansion - needs to be done right but not limited to crappy things like:
you forgot to put this text above this and the nit looks a bit wrong - redo everything fool i dont like it!
it has to be like boardmod, but just well managed.

I dunno if my points getting across but i need to finish this irc mod for SP cause im oging to see LOTR

[Jeff Lewis]

If I didn't know better I'd think you guys had something going, sure is a big love-in.

[Big P]

If I didn't know better I'd think you guys had something going, sure is a big love-in.

What what what?? Thats perposterous!  
Wanna join in?   lol.

[Samm]

lol!
I see where your coming from though.
Its plainly obvious that whatever mod site for se does come along that its not gonna be on boardmod, so i agree with big p, it should be mods.yabb.info or something.
As i haven't actually managed to get yabb se fully working on my test server yet ( had bugs, now sorted but i still can't stay logged in past a single click, its a win server so i think thats probably a major part of the problem ) i don't know what this built in mod/package thing is like so i can't really comment...
I'll let you know when i get it sorted

EDIT: I would also be interested in being a part of this mod approval and test team thing...

[Big P]

Samm delete your cookies, then you can stay logged in. It's a bit weird alright!  

[Samm]

Done that already
I tried deleting my cookies and renaming them and still no joy... Even weirder!

[Big P]

Hmm, that's odd. My SE didnt work at the start and all i had to do was delete my cookies.. hmm