First post!!!

[John R]

I don't like portals. They are too restrictive. No offense to the YaPP guys, or anyone else, thats just my opinion.

The proceeding statement is totally incorrect.  Basically, everything in life is restrictive in one way or another.  We are governed by restrictive laws, etc. BUT for creative endevors you are only restricted by the limits of your imagination.

YaBB SE-YaPP is an interesting symbiotic relationship that seems to work well together.  Don't like some of the features then don't use them.  Want other features then write them.  Just remember you are only restricted by the limit of your own imagination.

cheers...........

[David]

I don't like portals. They are too restrictive. No offense to the YaPP guys, or anyone else, thats just my opinion.

The proceeding statement is totally incorrect.  Basically, everything in life is restrictive in one way or another.  We are governed by restrictive laws, etc. BUT for creative endevors you are only restricted by the limits of your imagination.

YaBB SE-YaPP is an interesting symbiotic relationship that seems to work well together.  Don't like some of the features then don't use them.  Want other features then write them.  Just remember you are only restricted by the limit of your own imagination.

cheers...........

What I see as it being restrictive is the general look.  Yes you can fully control the template but you will still never be able to achieve the customibility that you get when designing a site from scratch.  

[mephisto_kur]

Why not?  The template allows you to move the different components around.  If you switch to usinf CSS, this become even more customizable.  Anything that you don't truely like is easy enough to find in the source and change.

My point here, David, is that you have no issue using a Forum software that is just as restrictive, but you do have a problem with a portal that adds features you don't even have to use....

[David]

My point here, David, is that you have no issue using a Forum software that is just as restrictive, but you do have a problem with a portal that adds features you don't even have to use....

I am not going to get into this with you because all I see is flames.

[irbrian]

The proceeding statement is totally incorrect.  Basically, everything in life is restrictive in one way or another.  We are governed by restrictive laws, etc. BUT for creative endevors you are only restricted by the limits of your imagination.

Please allow me to expound upon your statement... for creative endeavors you are only restricted by the limits of your imagination, the time you have available, and the skills required to modify the tool you have chosen to your needs.

If I had the time, patience, and necessary PHP skills (the last of which is debatable, but the first two certainly not) I could take simple threaded forum script and turn it into a full-featured store front. The question is, why would I want to do that when other, more suitable applications exist, or when I could design one from scratch and go through less hassle.

Anyway, all else aside, I offer a challenge. I have picked a random website from the net that I feel offers a fine variety in design and interface within its bounds, and is yet well designed, stylish, and easy to navigate:

http://www.metmuseum.org/

You may disagree regarding my above statements about the site, but I'm not offering a review: the challenge is to develop a site (in theory, not in practice!) that is similar in visual, structural, and navigational style to the above website.

Again, I'm not asking you to develop the site. I'm asking if you COULD develop the above site with your preferred portal software without modifying the actual code more than your average mod-writer would.
I will also respond to the statement about YaBB SE: Yes, it is restrictive. It restricts its user into using the tried and tested interface that all modern forums use. It can be modified, but it cannot reasonably be modified to become something other than a forum, and neither should it. A forum package can be restrictive. So can a portal. They both serve their purpose.

A 'True CMS' as I define in "What makes a good portal" (which I suspect none of you have read, or I imagine you wouldn't be still arguing with me over my opinion) must be extremely open-ended and non-restrictive, while remaining accessible to the common user with little coding knowledge.
PS: If you feel you can design a site like the above with your preferred portal, then I suggest writing a tutorial, because there are a whole lot of people who would be interested in that information!

[mephisto_kur]

As pretty as it is, its still a very basic website.  Why not pick a more challenging one, say, that makes heavy use of CSS or more than basic Java scripting?  Looking at the page, I see how YaPP could do it, even without too much heavy php coding.

Afterall, the entire site is intermediate HTML.  Even the individual exhibit pages would not be too difficult using a mod that already exists - Mad Moya's multiple template mod could be adapted quite easily, as it allows you to choose a template for each action....

Pick a hard one.

[[Unknown]]

As pretty as it is, its still a very basic website.  Why not pick a more challenging one, say, that makes heavy use of CSS or more than basic Java scripting?  Looking at the page, I see how YaPP could do it, even without too much heavy php coding.

I hope you understand the css only allows you to change very little, simple things.  Like trying to change a painting with by licking your finger.

What YaBB SE and YaPP could both use is templateS.  And Trinity (SE 2.0) will have them.

-[Unknown]

[mephisto_kur]

Yapp Already has them.  His criteria was:

I'm asking if you COULD develop the above site with your preferred portal software without modifying the actual code more than your average mod-writer would.

Find out how to do multiple templates here.

[mephisto_kur]

And CSS can be used to control *everything* that affects appearance of a site.

Resources:
Glish
Westciv
Evolt.

If you read those,you can see how almost TOTAL the control CSS has over your pages.  YaPP and YaBBSE both barely touch anything CSS.

[[Unknown]]

Alright... you misunderstand.

Templates means a template for everything.  Go look at vBulletin or Invision.  I don't mean user selectable templates.

Do you think that CSS can be used to change THE LAYOUT OF A SITE?  If so, you have been monumentously fooled by CSS lovers.  Sorry, but you can't.

It is impossible to make an image out of nothing with CSS.  It is impossible to add smilies with CSS.

If you can add smilies with CSS.... you will have broken the lwas of web browsing.

-[Unknown]

[mephisto_kur]

What does that have to do with his example above?  And what does any of that have to do with appearence?  As I said:

And CSS can be used to control *everything* that affects appearance of a site.

Bold added.  Appearance means just that.  HOW THINGS LOOK.  What you define with CSS is the bahvior of HTML, you still need basic knowledge of HTML to do layout, but CSS takes over from there.

I still don't understand what you aren't getting about using multiple templates...  You do understand that you can set a different template for just about any action on your board, right?  Whether user selected or admin selected?

[Jedi~]

Eric, after you've seen us talking about this for over a week, NOW you say you don't want others to continue developing it?

One simple question... why?

I've got a couple reasons, of which I'll explain to you in private. As for why I waited, I hadn't really made up my mind, and I didn't want to say I didn't want anyone doing it without a good reason (which I now have.)

[Michele]

Ok Eric... I'll wait for your PM... just hurry a bit because I already got v.6.1 working with v1.5.1 and am about to add my FAQ module to it.

[[Unknown]]

I hope you understand the css only allows you to change very little, simple things.  Like trying to change a painting with by licking your finger.

What YaBB SE and YaPP could both use is templateS.  And Trinity (SE 2.0) will have them.

-[Unknown]

I suggest you reread my post as well.  As taken in context (that is, as a response to mine) your reply indicates that you feel that changing the CSS can indeed change more than skin deep appearance.

Also you obviously don't understand what I mean by templates.  In SE 2.0, you will be able to list boards horizontally if you want.

If you still don't understand, take a look at vBulletin or Invision's template systems.  While these are underdeveloped and not well documented (to my resources, at least) theyb are a step farther than either YaPP or YaBB SE have gone (in 1.x...).

When I say template, I mean a layout for the data not junk around the data.  Nor do I mean different junk around different actions.

-[Unknown]

[mephisto_kur]

First, I'll point out that what was asked for was the ability to recreate the looks of the site above using my favorite portal.  I know it could be done with the abilities of an average modder - admittedly with lots of time to mess with it.

You are talking about something entirely different from what he was talking about.  I still believe it is within the realm of an average modder.  Look at BoardIndex.php.  All that file is is one giant template.  There is no reason why you wouldn't be able to go in there, slice it up and have php code point at different templates for different fucntions - your kind of templates, not mine.  BoardIndex.php and Display.php and all of the other files that display anything are showing the user *just html.*  Funny thing is, there are many calls to the CSS of the template (My kind, not yours) in these files.