Taking The Next Step

[gobbo]

Will the new system be able to use my SE database. Or will someone else take over the YaBB SE project?

[David]

Will the new system be able to use my SE database. Or will someone else take over the YaBB SE project?

It will be an upgrade just like any other version we have previously released.

[sensovision]

Simplicity doesn't imply weakness or dumbness.  It's all in how you take it...

Most people wouldn't get something named "Complex Machines Forum", would they?  Complexity is bad.  Too much simplicity is bad too - but simplicity means that it works, works well, does everything everyone else does, and makes sense.  Who doesn't want that?

-[Unknown]

that what I wish to say, Simplicity is step to excellence!

[forum182]

Yeh, i also think the name "Simple Machines" sucks donkey balls, but the abreviation "SMF" is pretty sweet.

But it isnt about the name, its about the code, and how easy it is for users and admins to use.

I think this could really take on the bigger forims like vBulliten and phpBB, which both suck btw.

neway, good luck with SMF  

[Jeff Lewis]

SMF is the forum name. Simple Machines is the group name.

We make software that is simple to use  

[tweek]

So I take it SMF will no longer be an "open source" project.

With the loss of open source, what promises do users of SMF have of not one day having to pay for SMF?

I can see some real heartache for users who migrate there YaBBSE to SMF and then one day be told they will have to pay for any new upgrades.  Why else would you no longer make it "Open Source".  

Please correct me if I am wrong and SMF will be Open Source.  

I have been around the net a long time and have seen many groups do simular things as a power trip.  YaBB was always open source.   Sorry, but I feel the move to SMF was more of a control move to take the large YaBB SE community, that has developed around the free and open source YaBB, to an enviorment that is controlled by a few.

My views of this have developed from the recent past by reading posts of how some in the YaBB SE community were taking exception to others splintering off YaBB SE and developing the open source in different ways and applying there name to the credits with the rest of YaBB SE developers.  I found this a little hypocritical because YaBB SE itself splintered off YaBB, an open source project.

I mean no disrespect to any here.  But if you move from open source, I feel it is a step in the wrong and disastrous direction.

[sensovision]

from what I remeber Jeff posted several times that YaBB will remain free forever and I don't see the reason why not believe to him...
as for converting free scripts into paid ones you could check out this thread...

[David]

So I take it SMF will no longer be an "open source" project.

With the loss of open source, what promises do users of SMF have of not one day having to pay for SMF?

I can see some real heartache for users who migrate there YaBBSE to SMF and then one day be told they will have to pay for any new upgrades.  Why else would you no longer make it "Open Source".  

Please correct me if I am wrong and SMF will be Open Source.  

I have been around the net a long time and have seen many groups do simular things as a power trip.  YaBB was always open source.   Sorry, but I feel the move to SMF was more of a control move to take the large YaBB SE community, that has developed around the free and open source YaBB, to an enviorment that is controlled by a few.

My views of this have developed from the recent past by reading posts of how some in the YaBB SE community were taking exception to others splintering off YaBB SE and developing the open source in different ways and applying there name to the credits with the rest of YaBB SE developers.  I found this a little hypocritical because YaBB SE itself splintered off YaBB, an open source project.

I mean no disrespect to any here.  But if you move from open source, I feel it is a step in the wrong and disastrous direction.

We have never said we plan to move from a license that falls under OSI guidlines.  As we near a release we will be looking over the current license used for 1.5.4 with our lawyer and work on modifying it to protect our work as well as try and stay within OSI guidlines.  Just because we are offering paid services does not mean we ever plan to require you to pay for the software.  Charter memberships offer advanced betas which are something we normally wouldn't be giving to anyone and thus is not taking the place of something but rather adding something new that we have not previously offered.  One thing users have requested is the ability to pay for official support often when upgrading their forum as they do not either have time or just want to make sure it gets done correctly.  If you want a forum you have to pay for, go use vB.  

[tweek]

from what I remeber Jeff posted several times that YaBB will remain free forever and I don't see the reason why not believe to him...
as for converting free scripts into paid ones you could check out this thread...

So why go away from Open Source then?  

I think Jeff is honest with his intentions to keep SMF free.  But by not making it open source, you lose that gaurantee.  

By following your link you provided, it even shows another forum software that started out free but now is charging for support.  

It's a dangerous path to go down.  I hope YaBB SE users don't get burned in the future.


On a positive note, I will say I like what I see on SMF.  Very modern and very sleek design.  

[Jeff Lewis]

We still have the same license we were using for the last SE release, where were you when we made that change?

Also, even if they ever were "burned" would you call it being burned by having free software for a few years?!?

[old dan]

Well I'm kinda late on this whole debate (hey that rhymes) but what the hey, here's what I've got to say.

I like the new board and site. Very well put together.
The board looks and works great. I'm not a big fan of the white and grey but that's just me, it still looks very nice. And when the themes are added that should be icing on the cake.

And I think folks are getting confused about open source. Charging for support is perfectly fine. In fact I think it's a great idea. Hopefully it will help Jeff and Joe recoup some of what they've invested. And it should also help attract some corporate users. They don't do anything if they can't get support.

I have a couple of problems with the current license, which I assume will be used with the new software as well, but Yabb's license is still miles ahead of Invision which is not open source at all. However I like phpbb's license. Too bad their program sucks.

Like several other folks here tho, I'm a little down on the new name. to me SMF reads as Stupid Mother, well you know............. Also, if someone was to write another forum just like yours could they call it Yet Another Simple Machine or YASM for short? And it doesn't have anything to do with TMNT's does it?

Anyway, I'd just like to congratulate everyone involved. You've done a terrific job. I think it's gonna be very succesful. Can I register over there too?

[Jeff Lewis]

Can I register over there too?

You bet, we want you over there

[old dan]

actually no I can't. I think I may have misspelled my email cuz I haven't gotten my password yet. Should I register?

[David]

actually no I can't. I think I may have misspelled my email cuz I haven't gotten my password yet. Should I register?

Updated your account to use the address you are using here.  Let me know if you want it to be a different one.

[[Unknown]]

Notably, we had some users ACTUALLY LEAVE because we didn't offer paid support.. they said something like they didn't trust free support.  That was a MAJOR part of why we now offer paid support - at least for me.

Me, Floris (technically he's gone but I still bug him now and then and won't let him 100% leave ), and a couple other memebrs of the team want this to stay open source.  However, there are some other concerns we had to deal with.  Because of the way things are phrased in the GPL, some (I won't name names) problems have come about... one of which was someone breaking the law (although his lawyer told him he wasn't, stupid lawyer.) and basically ripping off YaBB SE and then obviously planning to sell it packaged with something else in the future.

We had to hire a lawyer because of the crap.  It's not free to do stuff like that.  And, since Infodoma went down Jeff Leiws and Joeseph Fung have been hosting both Simple Machines and YaBB SE.  That isn't free - or even nearly so.  They have to pay the bills like we all do - and paid support can help them do so.

Paying to have an upgrade done has been done before.  Someone paid me a nice amount of money to upgrade his board and continue supporting it.  But, because I was under 18 and did not have the means to really handle money.... it was a lot of trouble.  If that kind of stuff was supported, not only would people be more willing to upgrade but it would be easier for some of us to handle money.

I will still be providing free support - and when SMF comes out, I'll be providing free support for it.  We're not dropping ANYTHING you could get before, we're only adding new things.

-[Unknown]